Esra and Enes Özmen are Austrian siblings with Turkish roots. As EsRAP, they give the outside world access to their inner conflicts and feelings. This past weekend at the Vienna Waves Festival Conference, Esra contributed to an inspring Roundtable on “popular music, equity and diversity” from the MDW with her uniquely direct and sincere opinions.
Moreover, the duo, EsRAP released their new album “Mamafih” in summer 2022 on SPRINGSTOFF. Continuing the tradition set by their debut album, with “Mamafih” they get to the bottom of the emotional impact of their search for identity. Inspired by the Turkish-oriental arabesque genre, ESRAP delivers a modern form of hip-hop with influences of house and trap and does not miss out on Turkish language passages in this album. The two talked to Katharina Reiffenstuhl about politicization, racism and sexism in society, as well as “Tschusch-Sein” as an identity.
You grew up in Ottakring and even published a song about it. The district is associated with a number of prejudices. Which ones can you confirm, which ones not?
Esra Özmen: Ottakring got this image back in the early 2000s, through Mevlut Khan with the lyrics “Ottakringer Straße – klick, klack, Kopfschoss” (“click, clack, headshot”). That’s how this gangster district image was built up. Yes, there are a lot of migrants living in this district.
Enes Özmen: The prejudices about the “Yugo district” and the “Turkish district” are definitely true. There are many people from former Yugoslavia, also from Turkey here. It’s colorful, it’s loud, but there are also many musicians here.
Your release concert in July was also taking place at Yppenplatz. Did you choose this location on purpose?
Esra Özmen: The idea came up with the first album. At that time, there were a lot of young people, but also older Turkish women, who said that they also wanted to come to concerts. The places where we could actually play, Chelsea, WUK, Fluc, these people don’t go there. That’s why we thought it should be accessible to everyone. Yppenplatz is right in the middle, so migrants from Ottakring and people from other areas can come. So that was definitely a conscious decision, yes.
As migrants, you have encountered a lot of racism, and you certainly had to struggle with it in your childhood and youth. Has society made progress in this respect in the meantime? What is different today?
Esra Özmen: Oh, I don’t know, I think in the past it was all more outspoken and now it’s just more subtle. I was just thinking about it the other day. What I have a problem with is when being political becomes a trend, but you don’t really deal with it. Right now, everyone is against sexism, racism, and homophobia. But I feel that only a few have the understanding, and really do something about it. But yes, there is some progress.
Enes Özmen: Racism is affecting our lives. What makes it really difficult is the racism in magistrate offices, hospitals, schools. There’s just too little happening there yet. Also, especially in large corporations, there are simply few migrants. That is the reality. If someone calls me “Tschusch” [N/A: derogative term for south-eastern Europeans and Turks] on the street, I say “dumbass” and go on my way, I forget it after 30 seconds. But in these institutions, it’s a problem.
Esra Özmen: Although Austria is very multicultural, it’s still very white. Hardy anything has changed in the positions of power. Politics, funding, even radios, there are only white people. You always have a few quotas. People want to do something about it now, but we’re not there yet.
Because you mentioned sexism earlier – Esra, you rap and Enes sings – do you sometimes encounter a lack of understanding?
Esra Özmen: Everyone was already like “Oh, you’re rapping as a woman? Huh? Why?”. But it’s very interesting that in the beginning, many thought that this is an art project. I was 19, Enes was 15. People wrote that this brother and sister were doing a role reversal. But that was not the case. I wanted to rap because I like rap and Enes wanted to sing because he liked that. I’m loud because I’m like that, Enes is quiet because he’s like that. It has nothing to do with roles.
“WE WANTED TO EXPLORE THE QUESTION OF WHAT THIS FIRST ALBUM -THIS QUESTION OF IDENTITY ON THE PSYCHOLOGICAL LEVEL – HAS DONE TO US”
Let’s talk about your new album that’s out now: it’s called “Mamafih”, which means “nontheless” in English. What do you want to express with this album title?
Esra Özmen: The first album focused on who we are and what we do. Also, since it was the Corona period, suppression was difficult. I felt emotions coming up but did not know where they came from. So, we wanted to explore the question of what this first album – this question of identity – did to us on a psychological level. I think “nonetheless” is just such a word that expresses something like that and the way you still keep on living. Our identity is exactly in between. It’s an Arabic-Turkish word that is no longer used and I just thought it was nice to have such a poetic title.
Very exciting on this album are the intro and the interlude, where you briefly talk about yourselves and your music. How did you come up with the idea to include these sequences?
Esra Özmen: There are many Turkish songs on the album, and I guess if you don’t understand the language, you don’t know what kind of feelings they’re supposed to evoke. You don’t understand who these people are and what they feel when you listen to their music. So, we did that as a kind of introduction on an emotional level. We wanted to give a feeling of what we are about.
Esra, did your studies at the Academy of Fine Arts have a big impact on your music?
Esra Özmen: Yes, definitely. For a while, it was very hard, I must say. I was thrown into this politicization from a very simple family, I got there and just rapped. I also had a lot of writer’s blocks, because I didn’t know what I could write, because some things were criticized there. That’s also a privilege, to know what things you can and can’t talk about. Am I allowed to academicize rap? Am I allowed to say “Tschusch”? I didn’t know. But, of course, it opened up a lot of avenues for me and gave me a sensitivity.
What’s it actually like to make music together as siblings? Do you often get into each other’s hair?
Esra Özmen: (laughs) No, not at all. Thank God. We have almost never argued. But that rarely happens with us in general. Until four years ago, we lived together; we’re not only siblings, but also friends. So, we hang out together a lot. I wouldn’t think of anything that’s difficult with him.
Enes Özmen: But those are also just the values that we inherited from our parents. Even if your sister is not right, it doesn’t matter, you just keep quiet because she is your sister. That’s also good. She’s older, so I just have a certain respect.
Esra Özmen: But you also have to know where you can go so that you don’t take advantage of that respect. If I take it too far, I lose his respect. That’s the case on both sides. It’s just important to keep that balance.
How is your rap received in your home country, Turkey?
Esra Özmen: Barely, I think.
Enes Özmen: They have enough music to listen to there. Unfortunately, they have super nice songs, so they don’t need our music, so to speak. A lot of old, Turkish folk music, and also good rappers.
Esra Özmen: To be honest, I think Turkish rap is not that good.
Enes Özmen: But you have to think about it. Why is German rap actually doing great in Germany? Because, in my opinion, Germany doesn’t have good pop music. But in Turkey or Albania, for example, it works, there are perfect remixes. So, it’s really difficult to keep up with them.
“DEUTSCHRAP CONNECTED ME WITH YOUNG PEOPLE”
What kind of German rap do you like to listen to?
Esra Özmen: I just listen to everything. Capi, Samra, Apache, Mero. Everything that comes along, I listen to. Then, of course, there are always songs that I love and songs that I don’t love. But I know what’s going on in the scene. It’s like reading the newspaper for me. You have to read newspapers in order to know what’s going on in the world. You can’t look away either. That’s how these songs are celebrated. Deutschrap connected me with young people, that’s what I like about it. I’m in a youth center, giving a workshop, then they play some rap song and I sing along. They’re always thrilled that I know it, and that’s what connects us.
Afterwards, you can always talk about whether you stand behind the lyrics or not. I don’t always stand behind the lyrics. The other day I gave a workshop and I told the young people “If you’re going to be sexist, then at least show some writing skills”. Sure, sexist texts are just not nice, there’s just so much garbage being published. What makes me emotional is that I feel like since migrants have sexist lyrics, it’s suddenly become shit. If we look at white pop music, music has often been sexist. We have a general sexism problem, not just in rap. Now the eyes are only on rap, which I can partially understand, anyway. I think this topic needs to be dealt with pedagogically in schools, not in rap.
Enes Özmen: I also think there should be a red line. If you box, you get punched in the nose. If you don’t want that, you shouldn’t box. It’s the same with rap, in rap there’s just this style and basically, it’s up to everyone how they form their lyrics.
Esra Özmen: But you don’t need it. Sexism is really one of the most unnecessary things in rap. It’s not cool.
Enes Özmen: Gender is not a talent, after all.
Esra Özmen: Exactly. God just gave you this function and there is no need to be proud of it in any way. I don’t brag about eating either.
“OTHERS HAVE NO IDEA AT ALL ABOUT THIS FEELING OF NOT BEING LIKED”.
Many would find the word “Tschusch” offensive. You see it quite differently; you are proud of it and even decided to name an album after it. Why?
Esra Özmen: For me it’s kind of an identity. The other day when I was in Berlin, I was told “Ah, you are Viennese”. I do say that I am from Ottakring, Vienna is my home. But as soon as I’m seen as a Viennese, it’s weird for me. I don’t want to accept that. I have been told so many times that I am not a real Viennese. Now it seems to me as if out of politeness one would tell the crying child “Okay, this is also your home”. Even though it really isn’t. Then I’m like “No, forget it. Tschusch is my home now”.
Enes Özmen: In my opinion, when you have a certain identity and a place you belong, it also creates a certain ego. I think that’s a good definition. We also just understand how migrants feel. Others have no idea at all about this feeling of not being liked. I’ve had that experience, I’m proud of it.
Esra Özmen: I don’t even know how many people experience being in a supermarket and feeling like they have to speak German now because the others are listening. As soon as you don’t speak German, you are judged. Many don’t even realize that. If you are a Tschusch, there is a basic understanding there, you know how it feels. I think that women understand us much better than men. Whether it’s sexism, racism, all these things, if you know a feeling, then it doesn’t even matter what is happening exactly. If you know what harassment is, then you know what racist harassment feels like. I don’t want to get emotional about this either. But I love being a Tschusch. I always like to say: if it wasn’t my destiny, it would be my choice. Then I’d move somewhere else to be a Tschusch.
Those are great final words. Thank you for your time!
Katharina Reiffenstuhl
Translated from the German original by Itta Francesca Ivellio-Vellin