The Austrian high-flyers with the Japanese ritual in their name have released their album “Mære” (AOP Records), a late bloomer, so to speak. M.S. (guitar, bass, keyboard) spoke with Sebastian J. Götzendorfer about the post-Black Metal duo’s fifth album actually having something to do with the pandemic or not, about head-banging with masks, atmospheric productions, mental health and Placebo. In the meantime “Mære” was number 4 in the German album charts.
You have recently released your latest album “Mære”. What – especially in the context of the global pandemic – was the songwriting and creation process of the album like?
M.S.: The songwriting process was actually the same as usual. I write the music, do the pre-production and then send that to our singer. He usually opens his notebook in which he collects fragments of lyrics and then adapts them to the songs. Afterwards we sit down together and see how everything fits together best. Then it’s off to the studio to record the pilot-tone guitars for the drummer, then I record the real guitars, bass and keyboards, and on top of it all we then record the vocals. The whole album was written and recorded before the pandemic even started. It was practically finished – the mix was already there at the end of February 2020.
The only thing missing was the guest vocals – Stéphane [Paut; note] from Alcest hadn’t delivered his yet. Apparently they had even harder lockdowns in France than we did here. He was stuck in his apartment in Paris and couldn’t record anything. As a result, we had to wait for another month until he could go out to his parents’ place in the country to record his vocals. The rest was in fact done before that.
That’s why his vocals are probably especially desperate.
M.S.: That may be so [laughs].
Was it therefore a conscious decision for you to hold back the release of “Mære” for so long?
M.S.: We actually wanted to release it in September 2020. However, nothing would have really worked out in terms of promotion and so on. Everyone was talking about the pandemic. We were so naive to believe that the situation would have calmed down by January – far from it, of course. In January the vinyl wasn’t ready, because the pressing plant in the Czech Republic had problems due to Corona, they had some kind of cluster. So we postponed again everything for another month. When the album finally was released, that of course was a great relief. As it’s been ready for a year, of course you want to release it!
While brooding over the finished album for such a long time, did the relationship to your own songs change for you?
M.S.: Well, when the corona situation allowed for it, we had rehearsals over the summer. That’s when we played the new songs with the live band for the first time, and that changed the whole thing again for me. During the second corona wave, I didn’t listen to the album at all, because I had to stay away from it. It was frustrating for me not to be able to present the songs to anyone, it was a very strange feeling. Now, at an even greater distance, the songs feel different again when you listen to them after such a long period of time.
Frustrating probably sums it up quite well – as it does for many others who currently can’t perform.
M.S.: The terrible thing is that many believe that you have so much free time now in which you can record, write music and start side projects… But with me it was exactly the opposite. Since this album was not released yet, I couldn’t close the books, so to speak. I had writer’s block regarding any new music. The pandemic’s lethargy robbed me of my motivation. Being at home that much didn’t help me at all in terms of creativity – on the contrary, I didn’t get any new ideas. Interestingly, now that “Mære” has been released, the block in my head has been undone. It’s really weird, what’s happening in one’s head.
I noticed that “Mære” is quite long at 1 hour and 24 minutes. Was that a conscious consideration or did it just happen that way?
M.S.: No, that wasn’t the plan at all. We always have been writing longer songs. In this case, we decided together which songs would be on the album and which would not. For many this was also a point of criticism – but for us it was important that all the songs written during a certain period should then end up on one album. In that way, this period is done for us. But it’s not a concept album. If someone, considering these aspects, doesn’t have the attention span for a longer album, then they don’t have to listen to it as a whole. In this respect, it’s not a valid point of criticism for me. In any case, we didn’t want to shorten the album come hell or high water.
That brings me to a good question: For me too, an album is always a “Gesamtkunstwerk“ (total work of art) of an artist’s musical creative period. In the past, that was common practice. Today, with all the streaming services and other modern developments, bands are releasing three EPs or seven singles to cater better to the shorter attention span that you already mentioned. You can tell that something is changing in the perception of music, can’t you?
M.S.: Yes, absolutely. I’m always surprised by this current trend. Of course, you can’t compare trap rap with post-rock – the meaning of the music and the listeners are different. But I think, for example, self-contained EPs are also good. But simply to release arbitrary singles that aren’t related to each other wouldn’t work for me. I like an album to be a „Gesamtkunstwerk“, but of course this is a very subjective point of view.
Now you have just used the term “post-rock” yourself. What is being said about the band is that you are at a very interesting intersection between post-rock on one side and black metal on the other. What do you think about that?
M.S.: Post-rock is definitely something that we both like to listen to very much. How much of it might then be found in our music, is hard for me to judge. There are certainly some similar elements like pedal effects or the structure of the compositions… But at the end of the day I don’t think we have that much in common with post-rock. I just think it’s mainly the atmosphere that we took from it. Regarding the Black Metal scene, we’re pretty much taboo for most cult Black Metal people anyway, because we’ve evolved so far away from it. But that doesn’t bother me at all, because I think it’s good if you move away from the origin and bring new influences into a genre. However, I’ve heard many genre names for us, some categorize us as Melodic Death Metal, others as Atmospheric Black Metal… Actually, it doesn’t really matter, as long as what’s coming out is what we ourselves really want to do.
One of the nice things about fandom, taking another perspective now, is that you can become totally obsessed with something like genres and sub-genres. One knows from musicians that they like to resist being labeled, because it makes them feel not being considered an individual. Yet, seen in a different way, it’s shoptalk and a pastime.
M.S.: Yes, totally. In addition I think that it’s also helpful when you’re looking for new music and you see the comparisons online under the various keywords. It can also help you discover new bands. So it’s certainly not a bad thing, but I don’t put much emphasis on it.
It occurred to me while listening to the album that it has a lot of atmospheric elements of post-rock in the songwriting, but the production is completely different and therefore the sound as well. The sound of the drums, for example, is clearly one resulting from a metal production technique. What is your approach to the production of albums?
M.S.: For the drum sound we wanted to have a powerful metal sound. But at the same time not this typical ultra-modern sound without any dynamics at all. We wanted to keep things as natural as possible. We only added samples to the bass drum. For the guitars, we were in a studio in Graz this time and experimented a lot with analog amps. In fact, they were not typical metal amps. Of course it’s a metal album, but in my opinion it still doesn’t sound like the classic metal production of 2021.
From many bands in the post-sub genres one knows that the guitarists use many, sometimes very experimental effect pedals and ways. What does your gear look like?
M.S.: In the meantime we are flying a lot and have therefore switched to a so-called “Kemper”. This is a 19-inch device, a profiler, where everything is built into just one piece, with all the effects inside. The advantage is that you can put it in your hand luggage, take it anywhere, and so you have your own sound ready everywhere and aren’t dependent on any backlines. For each song you have a sound base with all the effects, which is very comfortable.
This shows how much more professional and international you have become over the last ten years. “Mære” has also entered some charts in Europe in top places – how is that for you?
M.S.: That with the album charts in particular was a positive surprise, really – we actually didn’t think that would happen. Nowadays, of course, it doesn’t have the same significance as it did a few years ago, because the physical market has deteriorated so much. In Germany, the charts are based on turnover and not on units sold, so it’s easier to be at the top today. Somehow we always got a better feedback abroad than in Austria. It’s really great that our circles are getting wider and wider now: we played China, we would have had a USA tour and a Brazil show in 2020. We also get to go to places we’ve never been to privately before, and I really like that personally, because I love traveling to see new countries and cultures. It’s like a dream come true for me to be able to combine that with music in such a way.
Thus, the anticipation of touring will probably be great again as soon as the pandemic will allow it, right?
M.S.: Yes, I definitely can’t wait! I’m really missing it badly. Last year at the end of summer we had two festival shows in Germany with a special concept: open air, mandatory masks, less people, etc.. That actually worked very well. As far as I know, there was not a single Corona infection afterwards. But those were the only concerts for us in a half-year period before and after. So as I said, I really can’t wait to play live again!
“IF SOMEONE’S MASK SLIPPED OFF WHILE HEAD-BANGING, THE SECURITY PEOPLE WERE IMMEDIATELY ON THE SPOT”
Did you also notice a certain mood at these “corona concerts” in the summer?
M.S.: They weren’t seated concerts. People were standing around in a normal way. Only a certain number of people were allowed into the wave-breaker in front of the stage. The masks were mandatory. You could really feel how much the people had missed the concerts, and maybe that’s why everyone stuck to the rules in an exemplary manner. That’s not obvious, even less under the influence of alcohol, from what I’ve seen. If someone’s mask slipped off while head-banging, the security people were immediately on the spot [laughs]. You also had to sign a waiver beforehand that you would be immediately expelled from the premises if you didn’t follow the rules. But I think the desire for live concerts was greater than anything else. I think something like that could be done more often. Why should such a concert be a greater risk than a ride on the subway?
Hopefully the regulations in the cultural field will change again soon. I know that your singer is ostensibly writing the lyrics, but one thing that is interesting in this regard: firstly, how acceptable are for you the issues of depression and suicide by now, and secondly, how do you deal with addressing such issues in lyrics sung in public?
M.S.: Well, I think the topic is extremely important. In my opinion, “mental health” is still not addressed enough publicly or not taken seriously, and it’s still a taboo issue for many – especially for older generations. For our singer, it’s just that the lyrics are his personal catharsis: he has a hard time talking about it, but to bawl it out on stage and assimilate it in the lyrics is something else. I think it’s better to put something like that into the music instead of piling up your aggression and letting it out in some other way or becoming self-destructive in some other way. Just because you address negative things in the lyrics, it’s not supposed to make people feel depressed. On the contrary, we often hear from fans that it also helps them and that they can identify with it – which, again, is something very beautiful in my opinion.
“THE DANGER IS ALWAYS THERE: WHEN PEOPLE ARE HAVING PROBLEMS, IT’S HARD TO GET ALL THE TRIGGERS OUT OF THE WAY”
It’s great when the taboos are publicly removed from these issues. The other side of the coin can be that people having mental health problems might also be triggered by something like this. Keyword: Werther effect.
M.S.: Of course, that can happen, but I think that’s only a few. People who tend to do that probably listen less often to party music. There are many musicians who are handling something like that in their music, and this kind of music is also listened to by people who are affected by it. And I don’t think that should be an excuse for a musician not to be able to put such experiences into the lyrics. The danger is always there: when people are having problems, it’s hard to get all the triggers out of the way. I don’t think it’s possible, anyway. That’s not meant to sound as if we were shirking responsibilities, but there’s certainly no intention behind it to push people deeper into their problems. Quite the opposite.
I don’t know what the intention was for Placebo to write the song “Song to Say Goodbye”, but somehow it fits the theme very well. You have now covered the song on the album – how did you get the idea?
M.S.: I’m a huge fan since my early youth and I just like indie and alternative rock. I’m also a huge Deftones fan. Anyway, I always wanted to cover Placebo and suggested three songs to our singer. He had the strongest personal connection to “Song to Say Goodbye”, so that’s how it happened. It also fits well with us musically and lyrically – so it’s not far-fetched. Our cover versions have always come from other genres, which I find much more interesting than when a Black Metal band covers a Black Metal song.
One year after recording this cover – are you still satisfied?
M.S.: Yes, I am still satisfied with this one.
Thank you very much for the interview and good luck with the new album!
Sebastian J. Götzendorfer
Translated from the German original by Julian Schoenfeld
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