30 over 30: Part 4

To mark mica – music austria’s 30th anniversary, we asked 30 artists over 30 years of age how their music, perspectives, and the music industry at large have evolved (or not) over the years and through changing times. In a culture and industry often driven by novelty, we wanted to take this opportunity to focus on equally important aspects of the music branch, such as knowledge, experience, and hard-earned wisdom. For part 4 of the series, we asked LISA KORTSCHAK, BENNY OMERZELL, JELENA POPRŽAN, ELISABETH SCHIMANA and MARTIN SIEWERT questions about their work and lives as musicians, their outlooks on the industry and culture, and what advice they have for the younger generation. 

How has your experience in the music industry evolved as you’ve grown older?

Elisabeth Schimana: They’ve changed – I wouldn’t say they’ve improved, but they have gotten more respectful.

Martin Siewert: As I see it, working conditions in the music business have changed significantly in recent years, mostly for the worse. However, I don’t see a correlation with age; I think conditions are tougher these days for all musicians, young and old.

Lisa Kortschak: My work as a music and sound producer has increased over time; the income I earn with that work has also increased. However, I’m not and never was situated just in the “music business”; I work more in a mixed, transmedial space, composed of different artistic fields and formats.

Concerning my bands, I can say that we used to get paid for performances by venues (especially in Vienna). Now, if you don’t get invited by a promoter and organize a gig yourself, you have to pay the light and sound people out of the door money. The deal has clearly gotten worse.

On the other hand, with Half Darling (the live band consists of five or six people), some of the concerts we play aren’t paid too badly. The costs – that means the fee for six people, plus travel costs, plus room and board – are pretty substantial, and I’m glad we’re worth that much to promoters. As far as interest and feedback go, my experiences with that band have been the best of my “band life” to date. An positive trend in middle age.

“In patriarchal, capitalistic systems, the power of ‘the strong’ is celebrated. Everything that’s viewed as ‘weaker’ is in danger of being discriminated against.” – Lisa Kortschak

Elisabeth Schimana: Is the question about age, or about a person with a lot of experience due to their age? That’s a big difference. I can only speak about an older person with lots of experience; that’s something that’s respected.

Have you observed changes in the way the industry treats artists based on their age?

Martin Siewert: I’d like to see more focus on younger artists at festivals. Particularly in the experimental sector, I see festival programs all the time with very few artists under 40.

Lisa Kortschak: Some publicly funded grants and awards (from the MA7 and BMKÖS) are only awarded to people under 40. For a late bloomer like me, that’s not ideal; it requires an “efficient”, performance-based – and thus capitalistically oriented – career plan: you should have reached a certain stage of your career by a certain age, otherwise you’re out of luck. Institutions like the Musikfonds also award grants based on the “marketability” of acts, where criteria like age, career status, look, gender, etc. surely play a role. In short: unappealing.

Do you feel that your age has impacted the opportunities available to you in the music business? In what ways?

Jelena Popržan: The scene does have an obsession with youth. Older – or, let’s say, more established musicians – are often seen as no longer worthy of subvention, because they’ve [supposedly] received enough already. Women’s market value also decreases with age. We’ve heard it so often that it sounds banal, but unfortunately, that’s still the way it is. Also, the market is always looking for “fresh meat”, which can have the effect of hindering long-term or deeper artistic development. It’s very important to support young artists, of course, but it’s also important not to leave older ones in the lurch. I’ve heard that it usually works until about 40, and then again after 60, after you’ve survived the worst…

Lisa Kortschak: Most of the people in our band aren’t as flexible with their schedules as they used to be – they’ve got jobs, children, other projects. That has an effect on how often we can (and want to) play. I’d like to play more often than my bandmates’ availability allows, to extend our radius. But I also notice that when we play multiple concerts in a row, we need more time to regenerate than we used to(!). Lugging equipment, hours spent sitting in the car, and then giving 100% at the concert takes a lot of energy. 10 or 20 years ago, we would have had more to give.

“The image of the rock’n’roll life is rooted amazingly deep in musicians’ socialization, at least in my generation.” – Benny Omerzell

Do you use social media or digital media platforms? How do you perceive or deal with ever-changing, ever-emerging platforms or technology?

Elisabeth Schimana: I limit it strictly – not because I don’t know how to use the platforms or technology, but because I have no desire to sacrifice my privacy and be exploited by the big players. There, my age is a clear advantage, because I’m not trying to attract attention for the first time. I think younger artists have a bigger problem here; it’s probably difficult to get engagements without these media.

Martin Siewert: I allow myself the luxury of using them as little as possible – privately not at all, and professionally as little as possible. The line between information (often of little interest) and advertising or self-promotion is too thin for my taste.

Jelena Popržan: I come from a time when self-presentation and self-praise were a no-go, something to be ashamed of. These days, praising yourself has become a necessity. That’s something I’m very bad at; I still don’t use Instagram. There’s definitely a lot of pressure to acquaint yourself with these new forms of self-presentation and to be constantly visible. I don’t know how many people truly manage to keep up with the new trends (which aren’t actually that new anymore) and force themselves to conform to the demands of the market so that they can survive in the public realm.

Benny Omerzell: Only very superficially. To be honest, it’s all a little too stressful for me. Now and then, well-meaning folks lecture me that it would be nice if I’d advertise myself and my music better – they’re right, and I do my best to work on it. Still, I want to avoid having marketing distract me too much from actually making music; I’m trying to find a healthy middle way for myself.

Lisa Kortschak: I’m allergic to social media’s spiral of hypnotic pull and its manipulative pretenses of importance. I actually find it subversive not to go along with it, or only conditionally. Email newsletters are still the best.

Has getting older influenced your creative process, the themes of your music or the types of projects you’re drawn to?

Lisa Kortschak: Definitely. My experiences in the working process have helped me develop my tools; I’m always expanding my palette. “Aging” also introduces issues that suggest new or different processes. External conditions, situations, and the political climate also affect working methods, how you deal with things, and the content of artistic works and products.

Benny Omerzell: Yes, definitely. As I’ve gotten older and more experienced, I’ve become more mindful of my musical roots, and I know – among other things – much better which projects and which kinds of music I can contribute meaningfully to. The most frustrating moments of my career (for everyone involved) were with projects where I was in the wrong place – aesthetically, technically, and probably socially as well.

Has your approach to touring changed as you have become older?

Elisabeth Schimana: No. It was always important to me to be somewhere – touring from A to B or wherever never interested me. But that’s the fault of my focus on composition – if I were a [performing] musician, I’d have to think differently.

Benny Omerzell: Definitely. As exciting as touring life is, I realized a few years ago that that lifestyle isn’t healthy for me in the long term, psychologically or physically. For that reason, among others, I focused on a kind of musical work that allows me to remain at home at least a little more often and spend less time on highways and in hotel rooms.

Martin Siewert: Traveling as a musician is getting increasingly difficult, but that often has nothing to with age. It does pose a major problem, though: on the one hand, you have the (politically understandable) attempt to minimize individual transport; on the other hand, there’s much too little consideration and understanding for the degree to which we musicians are dependent on private automobiles for the daily business of concerts and touring (prohibitions on city travel, parking regulation, exorbitant taxi costs, etc.).

At the same time, traveling by air or rail is becoming steadily more erratic and undependable. In my view, under these conditions, they’re unusable for business travel in most European countries – overfilled trains, hours-long delays, canceled or purposefully overbooked flights.

Baggage restrictions are another problem – I’ve heard of multiple situations where colleagues with a double bass or a harp have been asked to leave trains because their instruments exceeded the dimensions allowed.

“I limit (Social Media) strictly […] Because I have no desire to sacrifice my privacy and be exploited by the big players. There, my age is a clear advantage, because I’m not trying to attract attention for the first time.” – Elisabeth Schimana

As a long-time performing artist, are there any specific health issues, injuries or other music-specific ailments that you or your peers have endured that don’t get enough recognition, support or compensation?

Jelena Popržan: Self-employed musicians in Austria are by no means sufficiently protected from health-related loss of work. The older you get, the more serious health risks become, of course. The risk of injury, physical and psychological illness, mental wear and tear due to the massive performance pressure…nothing serious has happened to me yet, but I do feel fatigued. I have a number of colleagues who have been unable to work for quite a while; I know that when that happens, you lose engagements, and there’s no compensation. That can destroy someone’s existence.

Lisa Kortschak: In 2014, while working on a project, I had a slipped disc brought on by a combination of workload and stress. My back is still a weak point, and I feel it every time high standards and stress mix during creative processes. I can only afford alternative therapies like osteopathy or physiotherapy in acute cases. Of course, the fact that financial support is no longer offered for alternative therapies, and that the health system is generally getting worse, affects everyone.

Benny Omerzell: It’s a thorny subject, but I can unfortunately say from personal experience that alcohol and other drugs are a problem that people tend to normalize and avoid confronting. The image of the rock’n’roll life is rooted amazingly deep in musicians’ socialization, at least in my generation. We also work mainly in places and at times when alcohol in particular is an integral part of the scenery. All that, combined with pressure, stress, and the worries of being self-employed, can become a dangerous mixture; it can creep up on you in a nasty way and get out of control before you know it. I think it’s very important to be able to talk about it, including with other musicians.

“It’s very important to support young artists, of course, but it’s also important not to leave older ones in the lurch. I’ve heard that it usually works until about 40, and then again after 60, after you’ve survived the worst…” – Jelena Popržan

Do you think there are enough pensions and other services or systems in place to help safeguard against financial difficulties, poverty, and existential concerns, especially as one ages?

Lisa Kortschak: No.

Elisabeth Schimana: The biggest problem is the copyright agency – not because I’m old, but because they don’t accept a particular type of composition; they consider it of far too little value. For that reason, it’s impossible to receive a pension as recognition for your work. Then there’s the SKE: you can apply there for help, but I find it humiliating – you have no legal right to it. I’ve organized my retirement through other means.

Do you have any role models in the industry who have successfully navigated the challenges of aging? What do you think can be learned from them

Lisa Kortschak: Not too long ago, Chaka Khan played one of the best “Tiny Desk Concerts” ever. Peaches is constantly moving forward, or reinventing herself…if things interest you, if you’re interested in the things you – or others – are doing, you’re never done learning. The trip goes on.

Elisabeth Schimana: Several – for instance, Eliane Radigue, Beatriz Ferreyra, and Helga de la Motte are all still active. More limited, to be sure, but just great!

Benny Omerzell: There are so many, but if I have to choose two, it’s definitely Thom Yorke and Jonny Greenwood. Their music has been a part of my life since I was young, and it continues to inspire me over and over. Not just the music, but their determination: in spite of all the success they’ve had, they keep reinventing themselves and uncompromisingly pursuing their ideas.

In what ways does ageism intersect with other forms of discrimination in the experiences of artists in the music industry, from your own experiences or those of others you know of?

Lisa Kortschak: In patriarchal, capitalistic systems, the power of ‘the strong’ is celebrated. Everything that’s viewed as ‘weaker’ is in danger of being discriminated against. What non-male musician hasn’t suffered an ‘explanation’ from some sound guy about how to play their instrument?!

Do you believe the music sector/business needs improvement in its support for artists of all ages? If so, in what areas or ways? What changes do you hope to see in the music industry in the future regarding age inclusivity?

Martin Siewert: I have a hard time with the term “music business” – I see cultural policy as responsible (with music, as in other branches of the arts, the government makes possible the majority of noncommercial artistic experiences worthy of seeing/hearing/experiencing). I’ve noticed a creeping provincialism in cultural policy in recent years, an exaggerated emphasis on local artists – for instance, whole festivals or concert series that are only open to representatives of a single country or even a single city.

Lisa Kortschak: More financial support for more different music genres – bring it on!!

“I’d like to see more focus on younger artists at festivals. Particularly in the experimental sector, I see festival programs all the time with very few artists under 40.” – Martin Siewert

What advice would you give to younger musicians about building a sustainable and fulfilling career in music?

Elisabeth Schimana: Do what you burn for!

Martin Siewert: Diversify yourself as much as possible. Don’t take individual events (such as media attention, awards, reviews, etc.) too seriously – whether positive or negative. Find the courage to take provocative artistic positions, even if they temporarily don’t match the current zeitgeist or flavor of the month). Train yourself to be very patient – you’ll need it.

Benny Omerzell: A big part of playing music with other people is hanging out with them. Find musicians you like spending time with, people who have at least a similar basic aesthetic concept as you do and with whom you can pursue a common goal.

Lisa Kortschak: Get informed about the possibilities for public funding, be as cheeky and self-confident as you can be, and dare to apply.

What would you say to older individuals who are considering a career in music or looking to continue their careers well into later years?

Elisabeth Schimana: Two separate considerations: starting for the first time is rather difficult; sticking with it is essential.

Lisa Kortschak: 1. Stay alive! 2. I didn’t start studying at the Academy of Fine Arts until I was 32. Before I applied, I wasn’t sure if starting college at that age really made sense; then, in [the alternative magazine] Das Biber, I read an interview with a Turkish female rapper. When they asked what advice she would give to women and girls, she said, “Educate yourselves, educate yourselves, educate yourselves! Don’t ever think it’s too late – it never is!” It sounds a little melodramatic, but it gave me the final push to apply. (I’ve internalized the attitude that, even if some things don’t work out, at least as many things can.)

Benny Omerzell: As long as the scale stays tipped toward joy, one should never quit – even if you’re not playing on big stages anymore; even if it’s only at home. And if you can’t or don’t want to play anymore, it can be really rewarding to share your hard-earned knowledge with younger people. I hope with all my heart that I enjoy making music for a long time to come.

Please note: The artists presented here did not take part in the interview together. The editor has compiled their individual responses into a joint article.

Original German responses translated by Philip Yaeger.

All “30 over 30” articles can be found here.

Arianna Alfreds