30 over 30: Part 2

To mark mica – music austria’s 30th anniversary, we asked 30 artists over 30 years of age how their music, perspectives, and the music industry at large have evolved (or not) over the years and through changing times. In a culture and industry often driven by novelty, we wanted to take this opportunity to focus on equally important aspects of the music branch, such as knowledge, experience, and hard-earned wisdom. For part 2 of the series, we asked VIOLETTA PARISINI, FRANZ HAUTZINGER, BERNHARD HAMMER aka BUENOVENTURA (Electro Guzzi), GOLNAR SHAHYAR and DANIEL RIEGLER (Studio Dan) questions about their work and lives as musicians, their outlooks on the industry and culture, and what advice they have for the younger generation.

How has your experience in the music industry evolved as you’ve aged?

Violetta Parisini: I know better now who I am and who I want to be; that gives me a feeling of freedom. They say freedom is the ability to move as you like within clearly defined boundaries: I think I’ve found some of those boundaries, and it relieves me of the need to keep looking everywhere else.

Franz Hautzinger: I’ve been in and around the music business for 40 years now, and yes – conditions have changed a great deal. Amazing changes in technology: the digital age, social media, media generally; all that didn’t used to exist. I’ve always liked technological progress and innovation. It’s exciting to me to have to keep adapting to fit the times (as long as I have the ability and the desire to do so).

Bernhard Hammer: I’ve noticed that, bit by bit, I’m getting more relaxed and cooler in dealing with the often precarious working conditions of the musician’s life. It’s probably because it’s getting easier for me to not have to accept every job offer; I can be more selective in how I spend my time.

Golnar Shahyar: I am 39 years old and started both my music education and career when I was 24. Since I had no prior experience in music-making, I have spent the past 15 years learning and improving both as a musician and a band leader. Now, I feel more mature in both roles compared to 15 years ago, which gives me a greater sense of safety and self-esteem. I believe this is because I know more about my abilities, limitations, priorities, and values, and I understand how to respect and pursue them. However, I am aware that I am at an age where I am considered neither too young nor too old in the industry. I do expect things to change as I get older.

“Getting older is an advantage when it’s about having a story to tell.” – Violetta Parisini

Have you observed changes in the way the industry treats artists based on their age?

Bernhard Hammer: Of course. Unfortunately, it mostly pertains to female musicians. Nothing against Iggy Pop, but when he goes onstage without a shirt on, it’s completely normal. When women show too much skin at the same age, it’s usually a big issue.

Daniel Riegler: I do think there’s a certain cult of youth, regardless of genre. It’s understandable, since our curiosity can only be satisfied by novelty, and only newly arriving artists can provide that. The appeal of youth is probably undeniable as well: young people remind us of a special time in our lives, they often demonstrate their lightheartedness and – to put it bluntly – they’re usually more attractive…

On the other hand, a young person definitely isn’t taken as seriously as an older person. That’s something I’ve experienced very clearly: you have to prove yourself – or worse, suffer through certain things – to be considered mature.

Both conditions seem kind of stupid to me, but that’s the way it is…

Violetta Parisini: Being young primarily means being new. It opens a lot of doors that stick and squeak when you try to open them again later on. Perhaps because people prefer to project their own dreams onto a blank slate, or because there’s a kind of magic in beginnings. Or because youth is a societal ideal in and of itself. An audience can free itself from this ideal far better than decision-makers in the music industry, by the way.

I don’t feel as if I’m treated worse [now]; I feel a lot of respect for what I do and who I am. However, in contact with music professionals, there’s no longer the hope that they might be able to make lots of money with me. I see that as a good thing; it’s liberating, artistically and personally. And it gives me the security that people who work with me do so because of my music and my message, not because of some diffuse hope for status and money.

Franz Hautzinger: Definitely. For a few years now (I’m 61), I’ve been perceived as an “old man”. I lived in France for a few years, and when I returned, I could feel it. It took me awhile to get used to this new perception from the people around me. I think that’s part of life.

Golnar Shahyar: It is inevitable that as we get older, we have less energy to invest in constant self-improvement and in being available all the time under all circumstances. This might affect the opportunities that come our way as freelancers. For those who have children, the situation becomes even more complicated. Nevertheless, I believe the question of age is genre-specific. In the music scenes where I am active, I do not feel that aging has created a barrier. On the contrary, I receive more acknowledgment and respect for my work compared to the past 10 years.

Do you think fans’ perceptions of musicians change as the artist ages?

Bernhard Hammer: For mainstream musicians, I imagine a point comes where the age difference between the people onstage and the people in the audience starts to feel strange. With Elektro Guzzi, I notice that our fans are aging with us, so to speak – that actually appeals to me.

Golnar Shahyar: My fans mostly range from 35 to 55, and I have a feeling we are growing together. Additionally, as a performer and composer, I am not limited to one genre or industry. This exposes me to a fan base with a wider age range and diverse backgrounds.

Do you feel that your age has impacted the opportunities available to you in the music industry?

Franz Hautzinger: Naturally! The music business has been featuring young people for a long time. But that doesn’t bother me. I was young once too, and I profited from that concept. That all never worried me too much. I always stuck to a business model of my own – I produced my own CDs but worked together with labels and agencies. Since I prefer to decide everything for myself, it’s always been easiest to organize everything myself.

“The business has been featuring young people for a long time. But that doesn’t bother me. I was young once too, and I profited from that concept.” – Franz Hautzinger

Bernhard Hammer: I’d say yes. As I get older and more experienced, I get to know the music market and the jungle of grant opportunities better and better, and my network continues to grow. That makes life as a musician simpler. However, I also notice that certain efforts that the music market requires aren’t as easy as they used to be: badly-paid tours and concerts, performances for very little money at showcase festivals, four-bed hotel rooms, etc. At a certain age you’d like to avoid that kind of thing – but the management often won’t take no for an answer.

Do you feel pressure to conform to current music or marketing trends? Do you feel this pressure changes with age?

Golnar Shahyar: I used to be bothered by the industry’s expectations for me to represent myself in a certain way (exotic, sexualized, etc.). However, I have maintained my integrity and continued doing what I do without compromising my values and priorities. Currently, I feel my work has gained respect and attention in the surrounding communities for what it is, not for what the industry expects it to be. Yet, I sense that when I step out of these nearby communities into other music territories where I am less known, things change. I must be very careful about how I move and make decisions to protect myself and my work.

Violetta Parisini: I’ve given up trying to conform to the market. These days, I rely on my community, which grows organically and thus reliably. My best marketing tool is concerts; that’s why I’ve spent more time in recent years working to get my music onto the stage than on the radio. Good booking has proved to be worth more than all the money I poured into one consultation or another – but that surely has to do with my music as well. It bucks every trend that comes along; I can’t convince it – or myself – to do anything else.

Bernhard Hammer: In general, I feel less under pressure than I did at the beginning of my career. I’m hoping I’ll be able to free myself of trends more and more as I get older.

Do you use social media or digital media platforms? How do you perceive or deal with ever-changing, ever-emerging platforms or technology?

Franz Hautzinger: Yes; I’m really interested in the future and the technologies available to us. It’s amazing what I can do from my desk these days, wherever it may be. I’m not tied to a specific place, and I love it. (I remember how a concert got organized in New York in the 90’s…).

Bernhard Hammer: I use social media, but I’m not up to date on all the latest developments. It doesn’t really stress me out, though. I think if you don’t feel like you need millions of followers, you can be cool with it.

Has your creative process or the themes of your music changed as you’ve grown older?

Golnar Shahyar: Yes and no. I feel I am becoming more mature as a musician, lyricist, and composer, and I believe this maturity is reflected in my work. Nevertheless, I still sing for empowerment, solidarity, healing, and dreaming. One major change is that social engagement and advocacy have consciously become integral parts of my practice. If I did not know much about how the industries of culture and music education work initially, many years of experience have given me valuable insights in this regard. Nowadays, I do not treat art and culture as separate entities from our contemporary economic and political realities. I use my platform to amplify humanitarian values wherever I can within the context of my expertise.

Bernard Hammer: Somehow, I think they haven’t changed. When I make music, ideally I feel just the same as at the very beginning.

Violetta Parisini: The process is still totally chaotic. But the messages of my songs change with what I experience, and what I perceive with others. When I started making music, it was much more about searching, yearning, trying to find meaning. Now, my messages have gotten both more specific and more societally relevant. Getting older is an advantage when it’s about having a story to tell.

“we are human beings, members of our families, and parts of society. Leading a healthy life requires other competencies beyond music. True empowerment is a collective reality, not an individual one.” – Golnar Shahyar

Has your approach to or position on touring and traveling changed as you have become older?

Franz Hautzinger: Very much so! I’ve had multiple crises where I didn’t want to get into a plane or a train anymore. After thinking about it, though, I started traveling again. If you want to be part of the international music circus, you have to travel; you have to be present. That’s just the way it is. In the end, I try to maintain the balance between travel and rest. There’s no way to do it without traveling at all.

Daniel Riegler: Well, traveling as a young person without a family is easier, no doubt about it. But it’s one of the best side effects of our profession.

Violetta Parisini: I almost always tour by train, which gives me a lot of time to think and work while I’m traveling. I love playing live – as long as the conditions are good, it makes me very happy. I like traveling. But there’s another side to it: I have children, and that changes everything. The duty to take care of people adds a certain amount of organization, of course, but the main issue is time. Time always carries the potential for a good relationship to the people you love, and children in particular need lots and lots of it. They need everyday time. This spring, I was reminded of that acutely: I was very busy with rehearsals, concerts, and a performance project, and I had to be very selective with the engagements I accepted. In the early years of motherhood, it was about reorganizing my life, winning free time and space for myself; then, it was about getting back into music after years of being away. Now, where things are going well, I’m noticing that I have to find a new balance between time for my music, time for myself, and time for the people who are important to me, and to whom I’m important.

Golnar Shahyar: Absolutely! Touring and traveling long-term under the conditions freelance musicians face do not support a healthy and sustainable lifestyle. I am at a stage where I appreciate staying in one place longer and having more routines. I am more interested in being involved in projects that do not require me to travel extensively.

Bernhard Hammer: Your resilience decreases, of course. Thousands of kilometers in vans stuffed full of gear, sleeping dormitory-style in squats, “crap on rice” to eat backstage…I haven’t found any of that among the social insurance agency’s healthy-living tips. 🙂 Ideally, I’d like to play fewer concerts and be paid better for them. But unfortunately, we don’t live in an ideal world.

As a long-time performing artist, are there any specific health issues, injuries or other music-specific ailments that you or your peers have endured that don‘t get enough recognition, support or compensation?

Daniel Riegler: To my mind, the greatest challenge is staying mentally healthy. When you look at people who have been steadily working as musicians for decades, they’re marked by the very high pressure to perform – and often to maintain their existence. A lot of aging bands, ensembles, orchestras look pretty depressed onstage. Mental suffering goes hand-in-hand with physical ailments. I think that’s something we don’t hear much about at the beginning of our careers. When you compare us to athletes – and I think the comparison is often accurate – our medical care is far from comprehensive. And people don’t usually just quit when you can’t perform anymore the way you did when you were younger. Musicians often play until they drop.

Golnar Shahyar: Freelance musicians are among the most underrepresented social groups, with almost no protective laws safeguarding their work, integrity, and livelihood. Nowadays, to survive as a musician, you have to take on the roles of a team—composer, promoter, agent, driver, producer, sound engineer, tour manager, band leader, accountant, coach, and more—while still functioning perfectly as a musician on stage. The community of musicians is full of overworked, exhausted, and burnt-out individuals. Anxiety, depression, chronic stress, and other psychological disorders are common in the music sector. Since musicians depend on their bodies, emotions, and minds to make a living, any damage to these can severely affect their ability to continue working. The older you get, the more stress you feel in this regard, as you realize that your energies and resources are limited.

Bernhard Hammer: Last January, I had my shoulder operated on, and I couldn’t work for several months. I wish I had gotten more support, particularly from the SVS (social insurance agency). Fortunately, AQUAS helped me out on very short notice – otherwise, I would have been in serious financial difficulty.

Violetta Parisini: I think the greatest risk for most freelance musicians is the psychological element: financial insecurity, coupled with stress of constantly having to be productive, to keep releasing music so that you can book the next tour. You’re under a lot of pressure. My greatest challenge is learning to take breaks in between, to plan in time to rest. Of course, that’s all more acute when you have children or other people you care or are responsible for.

Do you think there are enough pensions and other services or systems in place to help safeguard against financial difficulties, poverty, and existential concerns, especially as one ages?

Violetta Parisini: No. There should be some sort of basic income for artists. It’s in all of our interest that the large community of artists whose income is poor or unreliable be able to continue working – not least because they’re the motivators, the creators of ideas, and an important part of a society able to think and reflect critically. I’m a proponent of a basic income for everyone, in fact: it would eliminate a lot of bureaucracy and make our society more egalitarian and more stable.

Bernhard Hammer: My shoulder operation showed me very clearly that issues like inability to work, financial security, and retirement plans are more or less taboo topics in the music business that people don’t talk enough about. I think a lot more needs to be done here – informational campaigns, discussion, etc. Cultural politicians also need to take steps to prevent old-age poverty among artists. I can say already that I’ll probably never manage to earn more than the minimum pension.

Daniel Riegler: I’m sure there aren’t yet enough systems in place to make our precarious caste secure. It’s a question of the total income over the course of a career. That’s one reason why the gradually developing efforts to establish fair pay are so important.

“Issues like inability to work, financial security, and retirement plans are more or less taboo topics in the music business.”- Bernhard Hammer

Golnar Shahyar: Absolutely not! In Austria, we receive a small percentage of our pension from the government, but it’s certainly not enough to live on in old age. Musicians are left to provide for their retirement despite working as hard as anyone else in society. It takes many years for musicians to generate income from their musical activities, if they achieve that stage at all. This means musicians often start contributing to their pension later in life, which is another disadvantage.

Do you have any role models in the industry who have successfully navigated the challenges of aging? What do you think can be learned from them?

Bernhard Hammer: I think Swamp Dogg is amazing. He’s 82 years old, he doesn’t take himself too seriously, does exactly what he wants, releases one record after the other, and the music is still 100% authentic.

Golnar Shahyar: One could say that some older musicians may have misused their position to assert dominance, likely influenced by the norms and systems they were educated in. Additionally, aging can bring insecurities due to reduced energy and resources to keep up with new developments in music and society.

Despite these challenges, the older generation still holds significant influence in shaping the community’s mindset. If they prioritize values such as self-care, community building, integrity, and fairness, it sets a positive example for younger generations to follow and build upon. Creating a more supportive system for older musicians could indeed assist them in embodying these values more effectively.

In what ways does ageism intersect with other forms of discrimination in the experiences of artists in the music industry, from your own experiences or those of others you know of?

Violetta Parisini: Just take some time and count how many men over 50 you see and hear in the media, and how many FLINTA* people over 50. I think the same goes for other marginalized groups – sexism is just the most obvious example where it doesn’t add up.

Do you believe the industry needs improvement in its support for artists of all ages?  What changes do you hope to see in the music industry in the future regarding age inclusivity?

Golnar Shahyar: Absolutely! Building a supportive structure for aging musicians is crucial to ensure they can sustain themselves financially and lead healthy lives within the industry. The current model often forces musicians to choose between barely surviving and suffering or leaving the industry altogether, which is unsustainable and detrimental to both individuals and the community.

Franz Hautzinger: The pension system for artists definitely needs to be looked at. I know a lot of people who live on a pension of €200 – 400 per month. They were financially less successful, for instance because their style of music isn’t as popular or lucrative, but they worked just as hard as someone who played a different kind of music and receives a much higher pension now.

“Mental suffering goes hand-in-hand with physical ailments. that’s something we don’t hear much about at the beginning of our careers.”- Daniel Riegler

What advice would you give to younger musicians about building a sustainable and fulfilling career in music?

Bernhard Hammer: Make the music you enjoy the most, not the music that seems most likely to be successful.

Golnar Shahyar: Being a musician isn’t just about playing your instrument and earning a few bucks with your peers. Don’t confine your identity solely to being a musician. Remember, first and foremost, we are human beings, members of our families, and parts of society. Leading a healthy life requires other skills and competencies beyond music. True empowerment is a collective reality, not an individual pursuit. Instead of acting on jealousy, channel that energy into self-improvement. Practice gratitude and respect for the efforts you and fellow musicians make to survive.

Educate yourself in politics, philosophy, and critical thinking. Learn how to foster flourishing and healthy communities. Invest in multiple communities, not just one. Learn the art of negotiating and effectively communicating both your needs and those of your communities. Understand the distinction between pushing yourself hard toward your goals and self-abuse. Learn to rest and find joy in simple pleasures. Cultivate friendships that aren’t solely based on business interests. The list of skills and practices to embrace is extensive, but each contributes to a fulfilling life beyond music.

Daniel Riegler: The earlier you accept who you are, the easier it will probably be. But since I still can’t do that myself, I don’t know if that’s true. ;-))

Franz Hautzinger: Keep going, whatever happens! Development takes time! Everything is possible! And [music] is a ton of fun and will give you a happy life.

Arianna Alfreds

Please note: The artists presented here did not take part in the interview together. The editor has compiled their individual responses into a joint article.

German responses translated by Philip Yaeger.

All “30 over 30” articles can be found here.