To mark mica – music austria’s 30th anniversary, we asked 30 artists over 30 years of age how their music, perspectives, and the music industry at large have evolved (or not) over the years and through changing times. In a culture and industry often driven by novelty, we wanted to take this opportunity to focus on equally important aspects of the music branch, such as knowledge, experience, and hard-earned wisdom. For part 1 of the series, we asked CHANDA RULE, NIK HUMMER, WOLFGANG PUSCHNIG, ELECTRIC INDIGO and JUDITH FERSTL questions about their work and lives as musicians, their outlooks on the industry and culture, and what advice they have for the younger generation.
How has your experience in the music industry evolved as you’ve aged?
Chanda Rule: I’m having more fun! As I’ve gotten older, performing has become more personal – it’s more about my communication and creativity with whomever I’m playing and inviting the audience to be a part of that process.
Nik Hummer: When I started making music, the DIY ethos still existed, and it was still possible to finance musical projects with record sales – for non-commercial music as well. Almost all the good music came out of the underground, and people interested in music weren’t divided into a thousand subgenres. We all kind of belonged together. It’s not like that anymore.
Electric Indigo: I feel judged by my looks in a different way. Sometimes, particularly when I DJ in more rural places, I have the impression that people are repelled by how old I look, and that they would prefer to see either a woman that they find more attractive or a person that they can easily identify with. Decades ago, I often heard comments about my weight, or that I should smile to be prettier. That has stopped completely, fortunately.
“The creative aging process can be a beautiful thing” – Chanda Rule
Have you observed changes in the way the industry treats artists based on their age?
Judith Ferstl: I felt like people used to believe I was capable of less at times; I often noticed that my female colleagues and I were taken less seriously. I felt like we almost surprised people when we presented original music with a “mature”, individual style. Particularly in bands with more women than men, I often felt like people considered us “nice”, or felt we were “doing our best”. I feel like that began to change after I turned 30, likely because society is changing drastically right now. I’m really thankful for what’s happened in the last ten years, but there’s still a lot to do.
Electric Indigo: I think it is more common now in electronic music to see older people (50+) perform than in the 1990s, because the whole scene has aged.
Nik Hummer: No – but [there have been changes in the way people are treated] based on sex, skin color, sexual orientation, and social status.
Chanda Rule: I think this has a lot to do with the genre. I sing in genres where age is respected a bit more… but I definitely don’t get called for DJ gigs anymore. 🙂
Do you think fans’ perceptions of musicians change as the artist ages?
Nik Hummer: Well, your target audience changes, of course, but that has to do with the music you make. I was never really interested in [musicians] my own age. There’s a big difference between a “teenage revolution” – which is a pretty middle-class phenomenon here – and real artistic modernism. The latter doesn’t usually happen in one’s teens. Unfortunately, the music media has shown a complete lack of both expertise and emotional maturity in that respect, and so has the entire music industry.
Electric Indigo: I guess some people are happy about older musicians, since seeing them do a good job on stage gives a positive outlook for their own lives.
Chanda Rule: Yes. Many people think I am a lot younger than I am. When they find out my age some will act more respectful and want to know more about my experiences, and others are more dismissive – sort of like the gifts that I share are not as special because I’ve had more time to work with them. Some people laud the idea of fresh and new talent more than seasoned talent.
“I feel judged by my looks in a different way.” – Electric Indigo
Do you feel that your age has impacted the opportunities available to you in the music industry?
Judith Ferstl: My opportunities have generally improved. Over the years, I‘ve built up more and more contacts and networks; certain promoters know who I am, and I get more replies when I contact them.
Colleagues contact me less for new, long-term projects now, but I think it’s good that a new generation is coming up and finding room to present themselves in various formations. I increasingly want to concentrate on and get deeper into the projects that are most important to me, things that have developed over the years.
One new thing for me right now is being over the age limit for certain grants. It’s important that grants be available to newcomers – particularly at the beginning, it’s difficult to get your foot in the door. I think, though, that we need more sustainable subvention programs – particularly ones supporting concert promoters, so that they can pay us a fair wage.
I sometimes feel like people think a musician above a certain age should finance their work from other sources, such as teaching. A fair-pay standard would make a big difference there; it would likely keep them from being on the edge, psychologically and health-wise.
Chanda Rule: I haven’t felt the impact on performing yet, but when it comes to funding and grants I unfortunately have aged out of many opportunities.
Electric Indigo: In a way, yes. It is impossible now to market me as the “hot new thing” 😉 I’m not really a widely known household name either, so that might make it a bit difficult to find an easy hook for promoting an event in which I’m taking part.
Nik Hummer: Absolutely not, but that’s probably just because I see getting older as a positive thing. Problems and questions that I’ve been dealing with for decades have become clearer to me; that goes for aging audiences as well. It’s a win/win situation.
“People interested in music weren’t divided into a thousand subgenres. We all kind of belonged together. It’s not like that anymore.” – Nik Hummer
Do you feel pressured to conform to current music or marketing trends? Do you feel this pressure changes with age?
Chanda Rule: I have always felt and also fought the impulse to conform, but something in me isn’t capable of doing so 🙂 But I still feel this pressure – to be able to clearly label myself, to be more marketable in terms of my writing or presentation. This has changed with age though. As I approach 50 I get excited about singing songs I steered away from because they weren’t “appropriate” or “audience friendly.” As I get older, I am also inspired more by authenticity and less by social media likes or popularity.
Nik Hummer: No. Anyone who does might as well pack up and go home. There’s no substitute for artistic originality– just looking at the artists who are truly relevant tells you a lot. At the latest since the advent of social media, you can ignore most trends. Marketing is destructive, not creative, and truly sustainable things resist it anyway. The same goes for “youth culture”, if you ask me. First, there’s good art (mostly under poor societal and political conditions), then the businesspeople come and get rich off it.
Electric Indigo: I feel more and more pressured to post more on social media. But I also refuse to fill my profile with selfies or private hotel or home stories. I prefer the focus to be on my artistic output instead.
Do you use social media or digital media platforms? How do you perceive or deal with ever-changing, ever-emerging platforms or technology?
Judith Ferstl: It’s definitely an issue for me. I want to be aware of what’s going on in that area, to interact with younger audiences, and discover the opportunities that these platforms offer. At the same time, I often find the way people deal with social media very problematic; it’s even more important to me to find my personal way of dealing with it – and maybe to become a role model for others.
Chanda Rule: I use Instagram to promote my concerts, and sometimes Facebook. But my posts have been waning over the past year. I don’t like the pull of social media, and as I use it less and less, it affects how I promote myself. However, I’m not sure what a good alternative would be at this point. I think it’s important and am still figuring out a good balance. Even though I think it’s toxic, I remember the days when I spent quite a lot of money and time passing out flyers or paying promoters – so I’m grateful there are more options now. 🙂
Nik Hummer: There’s no way of getting around digital distribution. I try to actively and passively avoid streaming platforms. I’ve never used social media: my artistic ideals are diametrically opposed to the idea of those “hate machines”.
Has your creative process or the themes of your music changed as you’ve grown older?
Chanda Rule: Yes. I am definitely exploring more writing styles and writing more in general, and also exploring more ways that I can use my voice in performance. There has always been a theme of inspiration at the core of my music. But now, I feel the world needs it…more.
Nik Hummer:Yes. Reduction, clarity, focus…
Judith Ferstl: Yes! It’s gotten more personal, more concrete. I no longer have to pack everything into a single project; I’m discovering more and more where I can express which sides of myself. I want to deal with different things in different bands, to work and explore collectively as much as possible. I want to subvert role clichés, cross genre borders, question band structures, explore sounds and compositional forms.
Do you find that your age influences the types of music or projects you are drawn to now, compared to earlier in your career?
Wolfgang Puschnig: Yes. They get more reflective.
Nik Hummer: My age has much less of an influence on the content of my work than my current economic and social conditions.
“Yes. I don’t have to take on the ‘whole world’ anymore.” – Wolfgang Puschnig
Has your approach to or position on touring and traveling changed as you have become older?
Wolfgang Puschnig: Yes. I don’t have to take on the “whole world” anymore.
Judith Ferstl: I travel much less now than I did ten years ago, for various reasons: I want to keep my ecological footprint as small as possible, only fly as an exception. My desire to travel has also been diminished in recent years – that has partially to do with the fact that I really love being in Vienna, and I’m learning to value the city and my surroundings. It was important to travel a lot, and I’m thankful for it.
At the moment, I want to travel more again, but I don’t want to just travel somewhere to play single concerts – but of course, it’s difficult to organize. If booking were easier than it is at the moment, I’d probably travel more.
Chanda Rule: Yes! I am not as excited about touring and traveling as I was in my younger years. When I started singing I was gone… a lot. 3-month tours, 6-month tours, and travel every month. Now… I’m a soccer mom first, and then a singer 🙂 I also need more recovery time after traveling – which has been a very sad realization.
Nik Hummer: No, it always got on my nerves. I hate waiting, and I hate bad food. Though it might have to do with the fact that when I was 25, I already had a family. Touring is unpleasant for me, at best.
Electric Indigo: No, I still love it!
As a long-time performing artist, are there any specific health issues, injuries or other music-specific ailments that you or your peers have endured that don’t get enough recognition, support or compensation?
Electric Indigo: I think a lot of my peers have had problems with substance abuse and could not pursue their careers to their full potential because of it.
Nik Hummer: I hardly know a musician who hasn’t dealt with tinnitus at some point. It’s drastic enough for a normal person; for a musician it’s a catastrophe. People don’t even talk about hearing loss. And a lot of musicians consume more alcohol and drugs than the average; that gets ignored.
Chanda Rule: Hmm… I would say hearing loss. This affects SO MANY MUSICIANS. I see more people protecting their ears nowadays, but not enough. Mental health is also something that is super important but is getting more attention. I’d also say financial health. There are so many of us that are struggling financially and living off the joy of performance – or forced to do jobs that sacrifice the soul.
Wolfgang Puschnig: It is everybody’s own responsibility to take care of their health since body + mind are the tools.
Do you find there are enough financial protections, pensions and other services or systems in place to help safeguard against financial crisis, near poverty or existential stress, especially as one ages?
Nik Hummer: That’s a joke. All the studies on this subject have been saying the same thing for decades, but nothing has changed. The Social Democrats are just as bad as the [center-right] People’s Party or the Green Party. The current Green/Social Democratic state Secretary of Culture is surprisingly progressive, but it’s still all peanuts. There’s a tidal wave of old-age poverty rolling toward us; the first generation of “single-person companies” will be retiring soon, and it’s going to get interesting for a lot of people. Artists, particularly freelance artists, have no lobby, and they’re not going to get one. Society accepts – no, demands – that our products be blocked and stolen. If your name isn’t Buchbinder, you’re nothing. The worst of it is, most musicians (especially the younger ones) still shoot themselves in the foot by supporting it. It’s all really sad, actually.
Electric Indigo: Precarity becomes more severe with age, for sure. For my “business model”, I need to be able to perform on stage and to travel. Once that’s not possible anymore, I will have hardly any income. I have to trust that I’ll be lucky, and maybe get more composing jobs that won’t require full physical agility.
“Particularly in bands with more women than men, I often felt like people considered us ‘nice’ or ‘doing our best’. I feel like that began to change after I turned 30.” – Judith Ferstl
What advice would you give to younger musicians about building a sustainable and fulfilling career in music?
Chanda Rule: Gosh… the music industry is changing so fast and so often that I have a hard time answering this. I would say to become a multi-hyphenate, meaning a person that can use their talents in multiple ways. Or at least be open to it. But, although things are changing, the one thing that stays the same is that humans love music; we react to, and are moved by, sound vibration from other human beings. So, there will always be an opportunity to make music. I think that’s an important thing to remember, because it keeps the mind open to the possibility that opportunities are out there – which is important for all artistic careers.
Wolfgang Puschnig: Take responsibility for your talent. Try to reach an honest self-evaluation, not only based on external praise. You can’t always be great!
Judith Ferstl:My wish for all younger musicians is that they find their own way – and that way can be very different from that of the people around them. I’d counsel them to surround themselves with interesting, sensitive people, people with whom they like to work and who give them energy, with whom they find mutual inspiration and support.
Nik Hummer: Musician jokes are a status report.
Do you have any role models in the industry who have successfully navigated the challenges of aging? What do you think can be learned from them?
Electric Indigo: I think the biggest challenge is to stay innovative, sharp and interesting regarding your artistic output. One widely known artist/musician I can think of is, for example, Laurie Anderson, another one is Morton Subotnick, or, maybe less known, DJ Minx who is rightfully having a peak in her carrier right now.
Nik Hummer: Not in my area. But I had a great friendship with a sculptor, who is now deceased; he was grateful that he was able to pursue his profession in spite of the precarious conditions. And I learned that aging can be a wonderful thing for one’s own art. A lot of distractions fade away. Vanity, for instance.
Chanda Rule: Shirley Horn always made an impression on me as an artist who was on her grind her entire life, but became more known in her later years. I also love how Joni Mitchell has navigated the music scene and how she and her voice have changed with age. They both show me that the creative aging process can be a beautiful thing.
Do you believe the industry needs improvement in its support for artists of all ages? What changes do you hope to see in the music industry in the future regarding age inclusivity?
Wolfgang Puschnig: As long as you can generate money for the “industry” age does not come in the picture. It has always been like that and most probably will not change.
Nik Hummer: “Industry” is a term from the business world. In the present economic system – which holds music hostage – there’s no real “support”. At the moment, there’s only “exploitation” and “monetization“. This system cannot be reformed.
Anything else?
Nik Hummer: Social media is killing art!
Arianna Alfreds
Featured artists
Chanda Rule is a singer, composer, published writer, podcast host and vocal professor.
Nik Hummer is a 51 year-old musician, producer and interior designer. His studio is called minusgroundzero.
Electric Indigo is a DJ, composer, musician and founder of female:pressure.
Wolfgang Puschnig is an Austrian jazz musician (alto saxophone, flutes, bass clarinet, composition) and professor.
Judith Ferstl is an Austrian jazz musician, double bass player and composer.
Links
Up Next: PART 2…
In the next “30 over 30” article Violetta Parisini, Franz Hautzinger, Golnar Shahyar, Daniel Riegler and Bernhard Hammer will be interviewed.
Note: The artists presented here did not take part in the interview together. The editor has compiled their individual responses into a joint article.
Responses in German translated by Philip Yaeger.
All “30 over 30” articles can be found here.